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Author Topic: Considering switching to pardus... Some questions  (Read 2824 times)
VyNiL
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« on: May 16, 2007, 15:51:24 PM »

Hello,
I'm a user coming from Gentoo and I've been searching for a new distribution to switch to (though I really like Gentoo, but it is simply not moving forward anymore). I've considered ArchLinux as an alternative and have recently found Pardus which seems very interesting...
...But I still have some issues:

* Where is the documentation?. I struggled with the website to find documentation and finally found some articles explaining PiSi, COMAR, etc; but I failed to see documentation on setting up advanced software like LDAP, cacti, openvz, even beryl!, among others (either everything just works or theres a need for larger docs. i.e. a wiki, a packages website, introductory articles...).

* How big is the user base? can users easily contribute to the distribution? is there a user-submitted package repository?

* Why does one need to write XML to write packages? Once I read that "making humans write xml is sadistic". I totally agree. Since the distribution is greatly based on python: have you considered something like: SLiP http://slip.sourceforge.net/?

* The web site seems like a closed source project (hehe). It doesn't seem to aim to user inclusion. (Though it is quite pretty)

* Why not use English as primary language? I understand it is a Turkish distro (I'm Venezuelan and my primary language is Spanish), but it would help making the distribution available to more people (I found documentation for many things but in Turkish)

I did like Pardus a lot, and am going to give it a try, but I'm really concerned about the user inclusion in the distribution. I would gladly join the developers if I find the distribution to be open to new users and contributions.

I would love to see Pardus become a distribution with the openness of Gentoo for advanced users but easier for the general user.
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Willem
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 23:03:20 PM »

Hi Vyn,
first of all welcome on the forum, good to have you here! I think it is a good thing considering switching to Pardus. Although Pardus is still a very you distribution, it is very complete!

Because it is still very young, Pardus has still a relatively small userbase. The community working very hard, but it is very hard competing with the commercial distro's.
Recently Gorkem Cetin has written the first book on Pardus (in Turkish) and I am realy looking forward to the English translations (in progress)
We are also working on a multilingual wiki (http://www.pardus-wiki.org).

The userbase is as I said still not extremely big, besides in Turkey, Pardus is rapidly gaining popularity in the Netherlands. There is no user submitted repository, but you are more than welcome in helping packaging for the normal repositories.
Read here for how to apply:
http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/documents/developer/new_developer.html

The Pardus project is an initiative of the Turkish govenment to make an OS which can be used instead of Windows. For this reason the primary language is Turkish.
The Turkish government is actually hiring the best software developers to gain this goal. This doesnt mean that Pardus is not open, everybody can help. It is just an organised distro. Thats why Pardus is growing so fast.

I am helping myself as developer/translator/promotor etc, and I can say that contributing to Pardus is an addicting and fun thing to do.

So if you want to help, please contact the developers of Tubitak, your help is more than needed to grant the future of Pardus!  Grin
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VyNiL
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 07:26:48 AM »

Thanks for the reply. Pardus seams to be a really serious distro. I like that. I was reading the article on how to aply to be a developer and it says that you have to have worked on Pardus. How does a non-developer contribute to Pardus? btw: where is the mailing list? (please tell me it is in English  Wink)
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VyNiL
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 07:54:19 AM »

Btw, I also had a question about Pardus's flexibility: It seems to be desktop oriented, how flexible it is in letting users do configuration via console and tweeking the system (modifying the kernel, installing different filesystems, etc)? (Again, I come from Gentoo, Im used to flexibility, and as an advanced linux user I like to mess/play with the system)

I also think that some things that would also be very good (and I dont know if they are available in Pardus) are:
* A server edition
* Experimental repositories (like Gentoo's masked packages or arch's AUR)
* More info about COMAR (I dont quite understand it. Does it merge configuration files?, does it keep version control on configuration files?)

I'll probably think of others right after I post this, but I'll write them down somewhere to talk about them later.
I haven't have the time to backup my info and get a partition for Pardus, but I'll try it out ASAP
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Eren.Turkay
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 18:39:02 PM »

* Uhh.. I regret to tell you that there is no USE flags to use like in Portage. But if you are an experienced user, you can also compile kernel with your own configuration. Also other applications Smiley

* A server edition is a future, we keep that in our mind Smiley

* There is a Contrib repository like Gentoo's Masked repository. But it's not very unstable. To add and use repository, please read following link;

http://liste.pardus.org.tr/pardus-users/2007-April/000039.html

* COMAR is a system configuration tool. It supports classes that you use to configure your network, grub entries, users etc. E.g this gets info from a user (uid 1000). Open python console and write these lines;

>>> import comar
>>> link = comar.Link()
>>> link.call("User.Manager.userInfo", {"uid": 1000})
>>> response = link.read_cmd()
>>> response.data
'uid 1000\nname eren\nrealname Eren T\xc3\xbcrkay\ngid 100\nhomedir /home/eren\nshell /bin/bash\ngroups users,disk,wheel,audio,dialout,pnp,removable,power,pnpadmin,dbus,hal'
>>>

You know that \n is newline which can not be shown in python console. If you run it from console, newlines can be shown.

User.Manager.userInfo model is set in /etc/comar/model.xml, you can only use models in model.xml. Please open that file and see what classes to use in python code.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 18:52:31 PM by Eren.Turkay » Logged
roverrat
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 19:01:27 PM »

COMAR is a system configuration tool. It supports classes that you use to configure your network, grub entries, users etc

That's very helpful, thanks Eren. Must learn Python then ;-)
If I understand this correctly that means that there is no easy way to configure things in text files, like in other distros? (Apart from a few things like the pisi config file /etc/pisi/pisi.conf)

« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 19:02:58 PM by roverrat » Logged
Eren.Turkay
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 19:11:05 PM »

No, you don't need to learn python for you system configuration. You can also configure your system with usual way. You can get group info with "groups eren" and add a new user with "adduser" command. COMAR supports a big flexibility for python programmers and it's simple to use. E.g, If you want to write a GUI for user management with python, you don't have to call command like "adduser" and deal with parsing returned value, you can use COMAR modules for it so that your code can be more cleaner Wink
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roverrat
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 19:28:29 PM »

Where exactly are all these system settings kept? Sounds like you have some kind of database system.
I think I'll look into Python anyway, have heard good things about it  and I am very impressed with Pardus ;-)

So this server edition is just an idea you are playing around with at present? You've not actually started working on it?

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Willem
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 09:30:41 AM »

Everybody can apply as developer, the only thing is that ther issomething you can develop. Smiley

Quote
I also think that some things that would also be very good (and I dont know if they are available in Pardus) are:
* A server edition
* Experimental repositories (like Gentoo's masked packages or arch's AUR)
* More info about COMAR (I dont quite understand it. Does it merge configuration files?, does it keep version control on configuration files?)
A server edition is on its way
The experimental repositories are eg the playground, the contrib and can be searched with Pisibul
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VyNiL
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2007, 16:10:25 PM »

Thanks for the replies... I liked very much the idea behind comar, it might be used to implement a settings migration system (maybe with some information that comes with different versions of the packages) and a settings  version repository.
I would be interested in working in that.
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Willem
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2007, 18:11:48 PM »

Just mail one of the developers (eg Gorkem Cetin) and ask him for a SVN account, after that you can start helping.
Welcome aboard!
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Eren.Turkay
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2007, 18:39:09 PM »

Here is a "New Developer's Guide"; http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/documents/developer/new_developer.html
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