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Author Topic: 2007.1 worked very well... 2007.2 no success  (Read 4286 times)
KimTjik
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« on: July 13, 2007, 22:39:55 PM »

I made a post in the announcement section, maybe not the best place, but I thought if someone with the same hardware as mine noticed my post he/she could avoid a disastrous update process.

First the hardware specification in question:

DFI Infinity RS482 (it's a 939 socket)
AMD Athlon 3200+
GeiL Ultra-X PC-3200 512MB (BH-5)
WD Caviar 160GB Sata2

This hardware has worked flawlessly from installation and onwards, based solely on 2007.1 stable. The repository has always been 2007 stable; no customized packages have been installed; no proprietary drivers have been installed.

Since Pardus seems to follow in the path of for example Gentoo and Arch, the 2007 stable obviously came to include what builds the 2007.2 stable once it was released. I hence thought it shouldn't change anything dramatically and as far as I can understand at this point there's no exclusive repository for 2007.1 alone. Nevertheless the update made the system unable to boot. Suddenly all kernels were useless and I couldn't even get to a command line, so the system was pretty messed up.

Here I would like to ask one thing: if 2007.2 is supposed to be a stable release, why was the kernel *.86 labeled "beta"?

I downloaded 2007.2 stable release and burned it to a disk to see whether it was the pisi package system that got it broken. Here comes the twist: 2007.2 can only boot and install on the system above with the added parameter "xorg=safe", but from there it's at least for me impossible to configure it use anything but VESA 800x600. Appropriate changes in xorg.conf doesn't just crash the X-server, but strangely enough it gets totally unable to boot. Very confusing.

The point of having Pardus on the system in question was that it should be easy for the owner to maintain. 2007.1 gave the impression that it was a good choice. Now I'm scared because without a doubt either the new kernel or some modules of 2007.2 aren't what they were in the 2007.1 release. If I can't "lock" the repository to the 2007.1 release - not how Pardus works as I see - I can never allow the system to be updated ever again... or I need to choose another distro.

If any of the developers has access to system based on the RS482 chipset I would appreciate if they could look into it.

Thanks for your time!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 22:43:05 PM by KimTjik » Logged
KimTjik
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 23:15:55 PM »

Sorry for replying on my own post... but now I'm close to mad!!!

I thought I could get Pardus running not updated installed from 2007.1 CD and simply install some necessary software from the repository. But that's a huge NO NO! Now I got to know something new and this annoys me a lot in view of the problem I have at the moment: there's no way to use pisi to install a single package without it reporting that I need 126 dependencies! What kind of nonsense is that? Sorry for being impolite, but since I've spreading the words of Pardus for quite some time I think you should have some patience with me.

As it is now I'm busted. If I can't even install Skype or without being forced to install 126 dependencies and Audacity gives me 132, yes strangely enough both Skype and Audacity depends on a new kernel  Roll Eyes! To me this looks like developers have been overly confident in how well the system will run on all systems.

Sorry for being upset, but now it's a close call for me before I abandon Pardus. Probably not on my testing system at home though, but I will be silent and not promote Pardus before I know how this ends... a crashed system may put strains on a friendship you know! Sad
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Willem
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 23:50:04 PM »

Try updating to the following packages:
 nvidia-kernel-new
 nvidia-glx-new

Otherwise you should switch to nv driver in /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Good luck! Smiley
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For freedom...
KimTjik
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 00:53:21 AM »

I don't know if you're joking with me or not, are you? Because the RS482 has an ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated graphic-card.

I'll see if I can upload the Xorg.0.log somewhere so it might be checked. It's really huge and full of all kinds of errors.

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Klenje
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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 10:25:19 AM »

there should be a switch in pisi to ignore dependencies, try
pisi help
to find it out
By the way I had problems with X server too... even if I didn't manage to install anything (look at the other post)
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KimTjik
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 15:25:50 PM »

I'll upload the Xorg.0.log today or tomorrow. I forgot my accounts so I couldn't get it uploaded yesterday.

I see what you say Klenje but even if there's some way of avoiding potential harmful dependencies, that's still not a good option, because frankly it gets to complicated to maintain for a simple user. That's something I would do on my test system, not on a system that has to be stable and be reliable. I won't be around in all eternity to fix the system.

So the bottom line is:
- if you make a first time install, OK then you could argue that if it doesn't work on your hardware, well try some other distro, because it's free
- but it's not a mature distro if "forced" upgrades breaks a already working system

If developers of Pardus don't view it as possible to make sure that the upgrade path is stable, then they should provide users with a locked repository to what ever version of Pardus did work. As it is now a re-installation of Pardus 2007.1 is a waste of time since there's no way to keep it 2007.1.

It's better for the developers to get this information about a failing release from a person like I who has a very positive view of Pardus.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 15:28:11 PM by KimTjik » Logged
KimTjik
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 20:11:24 PM »

I've been a nice boy running a test on a different computer with the following specification:

AMD Athlon X2 3800+ (AM2)
Abit KN9 Ultra
2x 1GB Mushkin EM2 PC-6400
Gigabyte GeForce 7600GT Silent-Pipe II HDMI 256MB

I have been working in the garden today so I made it very simple: opened up Pisi package manager, searched for upgradable packages, selected all which did sum up to 303MB, applied and left to continue my work in the garden. The only hitch was that Pisi package manager become unresponsive when it had finished all tasks including updating the package tree. All in all it worked very well (still it uses a kernel labeled "beta", which I think isn't a good choice; you don't have to be like our beloved Slackware, but there's no need to push ahead and take risks [actual and how users might react]).

To sum it up: developers have to look into what went wrong what concerns ATI Radeon Xpress 200 (not a bleeding edge device), besides the continuing problem Klenje is facing. Still it worries me more that a working distro suddenly becomes nonworking, especially in view of the user base it's directed at.

I haven't solved anything, but maybe added a useful piece of information about compatibility differences.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 20:14:13 PM by KimTjik » Logged
KimTjik
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2007, 17:07:20 PM »

Here's the Xorg.0.log file. I wish you all a good read!

http://www.esnips.com/doc/f48f6964-78e7-4b16-9380-98357a741b22/Xorg.0
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KimTjik
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2007, 23:15:30 PM »

I tried to search Pardus bugzilla to see if a bug like this has been reported, but I can't find any exact reference to my hardware. On the other hand it might be related to some other ATI troubles reported in languages I don't understand.

I did however find a report by Erkan Yilmaz who obviously knows how to get Pardus 2007.2 to work on a system similar to mine, because in the report about something else (bug 6050) he includes the following specification:
Quote
My basic system information:
******************************************
AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3400+
ATI RS482 [Radeon Xpress 200]

Should I make a report? Or does anyone know Erkan Yilmaz and ask him about it?
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cartman
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 16:05:56 PM »

Surely Willem was not joking since I told him to post that solution, check out

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87918
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=95003

This is a bug in your chipset, not the driver and you will have to update nvidia packages to get it fixed.
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KimTjik
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 16:27:15 PM »

cartman, please see my response to Willem´s suggestion:

Quote
Because the RS482 has an ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated graphic-card

This can also be seen my original comment in another thread. I don't have any graphic-card installed in this system, if so I would have included that in the hardware specification, why it runs based on the integrated ATI Radeon Xpress 200. Besides that I clearly stated that no proprietary drivers are installed, neither for ATI neither for Nvidia [which I don't have any device for] (the bug referred to does just occur if proprietary drivers are used).

I can see why you thought about the possibility of a hardware conflict between the chipset and an eventual graphic-card, but "unfortunately" that doesn't apply to my situation.

Thanks anyway!

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Kavani
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 19:37:33 PM »

My HP dv8000 has an ATi x200 as well.  I haven't had any problems with it with in 2007.1 or when I did beta on 2007.2  I'm getting ready to do a clean install of 2007.2, so I'll post if I have anything to help you on that.
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Erkan Yilmaz
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2007, 18:48:06 PM »

Hello KimTjik,

>Or does anyone know Erkan Yilmaz and ask him about it?
ways to reach me:
- I have an account in this forum
- you can email me: erkXanX77@gmail.com  [delete the X, when you want that the email arrives :-) ]
- or come to IRC #pardus on irc.freenode.net


I have added here, how I got it to work.

The bug report is here, perhaps you could also add some info ?


Sincerely,
Erkan YILMAZ
blog: www.Iaskquestions.com
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 18:56:23 PM by Erkan Yilmaz » Logged
Kavani
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2007, 05:23:26 AM »

Finsihed a clean install of 2007.2.  Apart from sharing the home partition with 2 other distros (one is 64 bit)  I haven't had any trouble.  I was hoping to see the problem first hand, to better understand.  Sorry I couldn't help!
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KimTjik
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2007, 17:45:54 PM »

Thanks anyway Kavani for the effort! There might be crucial differences on a hardware level since your system in question is a laptop.

I did follow the suggestions given by Erkan Yilmaz and chose the "fglrx" driver instead of the "ati". It didn't get the window manager KDE to function, but the outcome was at least a bit different. Starting the "kdebase" service results in the following errors:

- can't find libXdmcp.so.6
- can't find libdl.so.2
- can't find libc.so.6

While searching through pisi I couldn't get any information but about the "libXdmcp" being installed and the others not being present, neither as installed neither in the repository, but I can't really evaluate this piece of information, since I don't know how these labraries are installed.

However I stopped "kdebase" service and decided to remove the whole kdebase package, and make a fresh install of it in case something had gone wrong. Unfortunately this didn't make any difference at all, the same missing libraries... or path.

All in all another piece of information... not that good though.

KDE isn't Gnome so here might be a lot of non common factors between Pardus and Fedora. Nevertheless - just as information - Fedora 7 doesn't suffer from this problem even though using the "ati" driver. Hence something must be possible to do to correct this issue... bug... or whatever, no matter if it's hardware or software related.


Off-topic: the person who use this system isn't so impressed when I tell him: "you see the base system works fine, it's just that we can't get the graphic-card to function". He laughs a says: "oh yes, I see it works perfectly well, it's just that it's useless!". At least he's not without a system since a configured Fedora 7 64-bit to have all the applications he had in Pardus and have access to partitions with saved data.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 17:52:37 PM by KimTjik » Logged
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