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Author Topic: RESULTS , MEETING JUNE 27 , 2012  (Read 4257 times)
Anglo
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« on: June 28, 2012, 07:12:31 AM »

Wednesday June 27 2012

Meeting held at #pardus-world on freenode 22:00 CEST.

Present : ( with no regard for the order) -richdb (Richard DeBruin), anglophony ,  jasperodus, Dirse, kufti-kufti, Erick-Pardus  ,  Yusuf , zhenshen , dschzz, erdinc , a._palius , airtight.

Spectator : S_W


 The meeting started on time , despite the minor nuisance of football ( that's soccer to you North Americans ), with richdb presenting news of some importance as he had seen it.
Thereafter , time was spent sorting facts as proved ,from rumours and poorly represtented info from Turkish governmental sources.

At this point the discussions are informal.

-Richdb reports that Tubikak is planning to use debian packaging system with Pardus Corporate
-discussions on the advantages/disadvantages of using debian , and clearing some misconceptions.
-suggestions of producing a “live cd “ to ease installations, and provide a base for further software installs.

-Kufti-kufti and eridinc say that the fatih project will definitely be based on debian
but that  if Corporate will be is still unknown, since they are still having some dealings with TUBIKAK , that they will be able to report accurately after the weekend meetings held by Tubikak.

-erdinc showed a video of the result of his work on LXDE : http://content.wuala.com/contents/erdinc/videos/P-2012-ANKA-LXDE.ogv


-Afterwards there was expressed need for developers ,
-For a need to maintain quality of the resulting ANKA distro.
-For a need of a formal (legal ) association
--there was a proposal put forth by Zenshen:
1:let's wait for facts, or decide what to take for the base.
2. After that, we can try to create an association.
3. Can / will try to hire developers.

-richdb closed the meeting wanting these points made:
That there are two option (if Debian is true), a new community Pardus based on the Corporate/Debian or a new community Pardus based on 2011.2 sources
Setup an association? If this is needed
That further talk needs to wait on the results of two meetings on the coming weekend.



Suggestions: Having been called  Old Wolf ™   elsewhere, I take the opportunity to make these suggestions:
before and /or after the time for the meeting, talk our heads off , talk about the Fußball, the weather , the nice distro that you fell in love with,

But

During the time of meeting we should follow some rules of conduct suitable for a office
 Each person , who are part of the effort to rebuild the community should be given a chance to present their offerings ,  suggestions ,   information , and expertise ,............ in. Their.  Turn,

Then we discuss that particular matter until a conclusion is reached,
Afterwards , the floor would be granted to the next person of the team for THEIR chance to present.
To be followed by discussion.

 I know this seems too formal , but is IS more efficient than everyone talking at once , not listening.

And by “rules of conduct suitable for a office “ I do NOT mean things like “and shut..... k....”
That should earn silencing or banning in my not so humble opinion.

Anglo



p.s. I have the complete log of the meeting if anyone wishes to view it.

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jasperodus
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 08:39:05 AM »

Nice work Anglo, excellent summary: clear. well presented and to the point. Good job.

I agree wholeheartedly about a need for trying to speak one at a time and, as much as possible, deal with one particular item at a time (difficult, I know, as things involve other stuff).

Good to have a first discussion anyway.

Thanks all for their time and contributions. See you next Wednesday.
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saygili
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 09:40:38 AM »

If it is really will be Debian based, I am really disappointed.

Can we call this creature Pardus?

Shame on you Tübitak.

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pantera
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 10:21:58 AM »


-erdinc showed a video of the result of his work on LXDE :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUZekvyNeWg&feature=youtu.be

This link its much better


for tubitak' s corporate debian edition, a picture result from N.Yucel (team leader Comak-Projekt)

http://nyucel.blogspot.com/2012/06/etkilesimli-tahtalarda-pardus-logolu.html
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jasperodus
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 20:00:44 PM »

Further to the summary provided by Anglo, and his observations regarding of the recent Pardus-World IRC meeting:

I had no IRC experience prior to the above-mentioned meeting. During and since the meeting I wondered if it were possible to have a system whereby a person could 'raise his hand' to speak – and also indicate when he had finished. I have looked around and found existing published protocols exactly along the lines I was thinking of. I realise that the experienced IRC people here will likely be familiar with such protocols – and I realise the initial meeting was a bit free-form, as it was basically 'testing the waters' but anyway, this is what I found, and for formal scheduled meetings I think something similar might be in order:

Special Protocols for Topic & Focused Chats.

The following special protocols may be called upon by the Host during Topic or Focused chat sessions. They establish measures so that the host can provide the maximum amount of information and answer the most questions during the time allotted. A non hosted free chat session will be held immediately after the close of any subject session for those who may want to visit with their neighbours. This protocol is similar to others used in online classrooms. Essentially, during subject oriented chat, the host has the floor at all times and no one is allowed to speak unless called on. There are no greetings to late arrivals nor are private messages to the entire group allowed. There is a system for indicating your desire to talk.
This is the way the protocol works:
The Host will advise when protocol rules are in effect and when they are lifted. During protocol, you must be recognized by the host to speak.

?   If you want to ask a question, type a question mark and send to the group.

??   If you want to make a follow-up question on the answer being given, type a double question mark and send to the group. (The host may not acknowledge your question at this time if they need to move on).

!   If you want to make a comment, type an exclamation point and send to the group.

After being recognized, you may ask your question or comment to all participants and after that is answered, you may ask one more question or make one more comment regarding the original question. If you have an unrelated question or comment, you must wait until it is your turn again.

//   After you have directed your question or comment to the group, send a double slash to let everyone know that you are through.
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jasperodus
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2012, 20:05:03 PM »

Also......

If routine and regular IRC meetings become established then, following on from comments made by Anlgo and Dirse:


If a section of this forum is dedicated IRC meetings then things for possible inclusion.......

Sticky:
   Protocols for formal meetings.
   Location and access method/s.
   Date, start time (UTC?) and duration or regular, scheduled meetings.

Dated thread per meeting held:
   Those present.
   Aim/s of the meeting.
   Summary of proceedings and detailing any conclusions/decisions/actions/unresolved/new.
   Link to a log of the meeting.

Upcoming meeting:
   Date, start time (UTC?) and duration  - if meeting is irregular.
   Chairperson/moderator (if formal)
   Invitation.
   Draft agenda leading to deadline finalized agenda
   Suggestions additional to agenda for consideration if time allows.
   Any information or links to information pertinent to agenda.
   Person/s responsible for summary and log.
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dschzz
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 12:07:13 PM »

I freely admit that I'm excited and at least somewhat disoriented. (And for sure young in terms of Pardus time, too.)
So, cheers for the Old Wolves!

I insist we should have our ideas (presentations to the meeting) posted prior to the meeting. For that we need someone (richdb or Anglo or jasperodus) create a forum sub-heading. There we can pre-post our presentations.
Good idea! Technical ideas included? Smiley

... I beg you all to urgently refer me to a Pardus-user lawyer in Europe, or elsewhere on this planet (except Turkey).

We cannot!
Remember that I asked "who knows a lawyer?" during the meeting and only got no answers and a negative one?

Giving you a contact to a lawyer in Europe is (right now, by ourself) not possible. Try to prove me wrong, anybody. Until that happens (which I doubt), we need to act as if it's a matter of fact.

What about the FSF or any other international Linux organization that could help us with the next step and maybe recommend a lawyer to us - has anybody had any experience with them, has anybody ever contacted any such organization?

I have not the slightest experience in this area and no knowledge at all about legal things, but if nobody has any better, and nobody else (including you, Dirse) wants to contact the FSF, I could do try to do it, as good as anybody next door who has no clue about what he's talking about.

Otherwise we must go on without a lawyer in Europe. (Not to speak of a lawyer who uses Linux, or even Pardus.)
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Anglo
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 03:01:27 AM »

Pack of Old Wolves. I see Mevlana (Rumi) in jasperodus's broad lines all the time. Not to mention his above technical suggestions on cyber-meeting conduct.

Tech-guys are young and somewhat disoriented, excited. We need Old Wolves to create order out of this chaos.

I insist we should have our ideas (presentations to the meeting) posted prior to the meeting. For that we need someone (richdb or Anglo or jasperodus) create a forum sub-heading. There we can pre-post our presentations.

I am thinking about my presentation. I beg you all to urgently refer me to a Pardus-user lawyer in Europe, or elsewhere on this planet (except Turkey).


Not a bad Idea, I think, is it possible to have a uh, bulletin board sort of thing on world forum,were EVERYone registered can post a suggestion or question as they think of them? A well , I will try to be at the irc 1/2 hour early , so if you want to pop in , as your question , it will be in my logs  ( I, or my avatar, WILL have to be there for this to happen)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 03:07:07 AM by Anglo » Logged
Anglo
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 03:11:56 AM »

This meeting was of special nature,Nihad Karsli was invited to speak , making this …...........summary ,something of a special work.


Present: jasperdous, anglo ,dirse , enki,dschzz, a_palius , erdinc, atolboo,, kuftikufti, ,airtight baDibere,zhenshen,yusuf,tribunal,richdb ( eventually ) , namso _01?, willy

expected :  Nscdet  Yucel ( unable to come )

bystanders :  guest6644 , spectator

Nihad  Karsli ( enki ), head of Pardus Users Assoc. ( PDK)) being invited  ,had news , and things to say as a guest
News#1
( by Enki translated by various Turkish speakers ) The election held , with Pantera as the victor , was found to be flawed , ( by Tubikak ) and as a result was to be reheld.  The ( translated phrase “because election style of Erdinc (pantera) was not admired by TUBITAK,” election had to be renewed.
. Currently Pantera is the only candidate at this point.
He (Enki )  reports that although there are things he can not go into , he will explain roadmap, and that the LDK, EMO, and the ANKARA Bar ( legal  association ) will be acting as sponsors for the turkish based Anka group.

That “ Pardus anka will contain 32 and 64 bit and also will contain live and install versions”
The resulting distro will be live and installable.

Item 2: Special presentation by pantera, about Anka, future, etc.
Answered in the followiing:

Item 3: Special presentation by kuftikufti, about Anka, future, etc
reported  by kuftikufti: both 32 bit and 64 bit versions are being built at the time of the meeting ,
 hopefully finished by the end of weekend , the checking for versions ( of software ) and mistakes.. He needs to make a “system.base” , so alone the way he needs to make patches , and updates as well, which after such a long time since “EOL” will take further time.
With this done , he will make repo isos , one will be on the style of pardus 2012.

Item 4: Discussion on above two (2) separate, individual presentations by pantera & kuftikufti.
They emphisised the need to prepare the system base for the new needs of the new iso.If this was not done , then we will have only 2012 .
There was a question about naming of the repo result , because of copyright issues with icons , wallpapers ,Logos ,etc ,
The repy of Enki ( thru baDibere ):
“leader of Pardus project at TUBITAK has given an interview to some magazines. we can understand that there will be no problem about using Pardus name from the interview , on the other hand there are some words from the leader about this subject and again on the other hand, enki has applied in written to the Pardus leadership about this subject but there is no answer yet.”

Item 5: Debate on Debian, PiSi, etc.
Erdinc ( thru badibere ):    PiSi's sponsor is EMO (Electrical Engineer'sDoruk Fisek
 Society) about noarch, arm support and developing while adding new features. And its developers will be from Ozgur Yazilim, Inc. (the founder of the company , Doruk Fisek is a former pardus developer) the product will be developed by the developers  not the company. Enki is co ordinating things , and please be patiant , things are moving.

Most agree that a independent “pardus “ is preferable .
Several agree a mialing list is necessary, as well as contnuing the  irc meetings.
Pardus.de is continuing until end of year.Further if  there is a continuation of
of pardus ( anka ) development.Erdinc says the repository can be relocated if necessary , to another server.

As before , if want a copy of the logs I can send the required snippet
( if given an address)


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richdb
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 08:33:02 AM »

@Dirse I think the long silences is more an IRC problem (lagg in network, connection errors). An other option can be using Google Hangout for the meetings.

@Anglo Can you place this reports as new subject? So every report is a new subject. (I cannot find a way to move a part of a subject to some other place).
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jasperodus
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 11:36:02 AM »

@Dirse I think the long silences is more an IRC problem (lagg in network, connection errors). An other option can be using Google Hangout for the meetings.

@Anglo Can you place this reports as new subject? So every report is a new subject. (I cannot find a way to move a part of a subject to some other place).

Re: silences etc, I do think it would be useful for people to punctuate longer comments with '............', as suggested by Dirse.

Yes, most definitely for your second point Richard about each actual Report/Agenda having their own individual (thread?) entries within the 'root' AGENDA & REPORT categories.

Must dash.....back in a while.// (  Grin  )
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Anglo
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 12:58:21 PM »

@Dirse I think the long silences is more an IRC problem (lagg in network, connection errors). An other option can be using Google Hangout for the meetings.

@Anglo Can you place this reports as new subject? So every report is a new subject. (I cannot find a way to move a part of a subject to some other place).


I shall
anglo
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jasperodus
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 01:02:04 AM »

By the way, what should we do about the long silences when someone has the floor and typing long phrases and the audience waiting, somewhat unsure what is going on? The signs we use "!", "?", "??" and "//" worked fine, I think. Maybe we should have some more of these IRC tips in general?

@jasperodus: What say you about such tips?

Hi Dirse, for a first meeting, trialing protocols, I think it went really very well - I thought the patience and self-discipline of the participants can be interpreted as evidence that people do care, and are willing and able to work as a team. Really encouraging I thought.

Also encouraging, was the eagerness to share information and ideas. Esp. good to see the free-flowing contributions by pantera, kuftikufti & baDibere.

Anyway, as to tuning meeting protocols etc, I would definitely incorporate this into the conventions list:

....  - To punctuate longer comments - in order to promote on-screen flow.

Is there a need for some thing like this as well? – I don't know:

<>  - If you would you would like someone to speak on your behalf.

More generally.......

 I think the agenda items & protocols could also be written thus:

Item 1: Who am I?
Turkish equivalent


//  -  To indicate that you have finished 'speaking'.
        Turkish equivalent.



Perhaps use of 2nd  window open alongside IRC window for text 'doodle' - and where the coversation lends itself – construct, or begin constructing your comment. Not always possible, of course, but if there is someone else is speaking etc, and you are waiting in turn and already know in advance what it is you want to say.....

If the Chairman arrives a little while before the start of the meeting, then perhaps he could announce a reminder: “30 mins till meeting”.....”5 mins till meeting”, or something along those lines, as I noticed a few people 'outside the door' wondering when meeting was due to start.

I thik it is good to list the protocols (conventions – at least) & agenda items at onset of meeting, but is there a streamlined way of doing this?

Another thing: I used an IRC client (Konversation) last time. I got to grips with the basics (and was able to spawn a log etc,) but I wondered if (and I suppose it is likely) that whoever the Chairman is could simply 'click' on a person's nickname (or some such shortct) in order to have the name appear on-screen – and signal that person to speak.

Oh, another? Perhaps Chairman could (if practical, and the flow allows), signal for a person who has indicated a desire to speak while other dialogue is takin place, could be promted to follow as soon as the current speaker has signalled '//'  Could it be like this: '>>dirse ', as in, the current speaker was given the floor thus: '>atolboo', so '>>' to show who should follow without waiting to be given the floor after the current speaker has finished - could be logical?  
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 01:05:58 AM by jasperodus » Logged
jasperodus
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 08:42:51 AM »

Dirse: I see you have been chipping away (in the early hours?) at the stone tablets - excellent work, as usual.  Cool


Item 1: Who am I?
Turkish equivalent

@jasperodus: I couldn't understand this?

//  -  To indicate that you have finished 'speaking'.
        Turkish equivalent.

@jasperodus: Didn't we have this already?

Sorry Dirse: I just used that as an example, meant to convey that perhaps (all) agenda items & conventions be listed at start of meeting in TR as well as EN. Don't know if that is a practical or useful idea?



I thik it is good to list the protocols (conventions – at least) & agenda items at onset of meeting, but is there a streamlined way of doing this?
I guess: Just paste from your clipboard?

Wondered if more streamlined way exists than that - probably not



Another thing: I used an IRC client (Konversation) last time. I got to grips with the basics (and was able to spawn a log etc,) but I wondered if (and I suppose it is likely) that whoever the Chairman is could simply 'click' on a person's nickname (or some such shortcut) in order to have the name appear on-screen – and signal that person to speak.
I think it doesn't work that way. When you 'click' on a person's nickname (on the right column) you open a personal (individual) IRC window to that person. Good for gossiping during the meeting Smiley

Yes, I have not had much opportunity (it's a bit awkward to practice outside of the IRC)  Smiley but I was hoping there might me such an option (perhaps as an advanced setting/config).

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